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ORTHODOX  January 2002, Week 4

ORTHODOX January 2002, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Jerusalem Patriarchate

From:

[log in to unmask]

Reply-To:

Orthodox Christianity <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:04:31 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (112 lines)

Friends:
First let me say thank you to those who are participating in such a
gracious, yes Christian, way to disagree or at least help me see where I
may not have communicated clearly.  In the order of yesterday's replies:
1.  Mr. Little does well, I believe, to be concerned about the possible
inroads of modernism, etc. in the church.  Anybody who denies that it can
happen or is happening has his head in the sand.  The world, the flesh, the
devil remain our permanent enemies.  The question is what we do about them.
Human wisdom, worldly wisdom (and example) say you divide from those with
whom you disagree.  I believe that spiritual wisdom, and the example of
such as Fr. Ephraim and other past and contemporary spiritual leaders of
the Orthodox Church is that you stay together and go through the pain.  Can
I assure Mr. Little that some segments of the church will not be drawn more
and more to compromises with the world?  Of course not, and the only one
who could - God - has told us quite emphatically, I believe, that He isn't
going to.  He has given man, and the Church, the freedom to mess up.  We
often take Him up on it, both individually and corporately.  As I look at
the landscape of contemporary North American Orthodoxy I see BOTH dangers -
on the one hand episcopalianizing, as Mr. Little puts it, and on the other
balkanizing (or Puritan separationism as I put it) - as very live threats.
In the American milieu I do not see how an OBJECTIVE observer can write off
either one.  The question is what you do about it.  I once had a private
exchange with a clergyman who is participates on this list in exchanges
such as this one in which he expressed the belief that my allusions to the
happenings of the Protestant past were irrelevant to the Orthodox Church,
and that he (sniff sniff) was quite busy enough learning Orthdox history
and doctrine.  I believe that this attitude, which is by no means his
province exclusively, is short-sighted and wrong-headed in the extreme.  Up
until the last hundred or so years Orthodoxy was pretty well confined to
eastern societies where it was part of the warp and woof of the entire
social and intellectual fabric.  Now, at least for us, it is in the West
and in the ring, so to speak, engaged in a WWF style donnybrook with the
same cultural forces which have divided and conquered the western churches
for the last few centuries.  We MUST take a look at how those forces have
operated on those churches, and see if they haven't already sowed the seeds
of further fragmentation in Orthodoxy.  (we have some serious metaphor-
mixing going on here)  I believe that a careful examination of what has
happened in Ben Lomond or Mansonville or Atlanta will show that the same
individualistic pietism that has been such a factor in the fragmentation of
the western church, something that is almost literally in the air we
breathe in the west, is operating among us.  The almost talismanic belief
that a Puritan jurisdictional affiliation will "assure" us that we are
spiritually OK for now, let alone in the future, is a powerful illusion.
As one who had seven years of higher education in evangelical institutions,
I can assure you that each fresh split among the Protestants began with the
very same kind of intellectual assumptions and constructs (or lack thereof)
that one sees and hears among Orthodox separationists.  A bit wordy, but...
2.    Reader Alexander, there was a failure of communication with you for
which I must take some responsibility.  My comments about manipulations,
etc. were taken by you as an accusation against the members of the Felton
group that broke away from us.  You stepped to their defense.  I don't
blame you.  I did not intend my comments to be an indictment of the group
or its individual members, or a suggstion that callous lying and
manipulation are a characteristic of their agenda.  In fact they are most
sincere and delightful people, and characteristically would shy away from
any conscious deception.   Even the few leaders of the split who created
the lies and manipulations to begin with sincerely believed in much of what
they were selling.  We all, myself included, of course, naturally like to
look back on the debacles of our lives and explain them to ourselves and
others in self-justifying terms.  In time, with much rehearsal, and the
encouragement of one's like-minded friends, our self-deception can become
rather complete.  On both sides.
3.  Fr. Anthony almost gets my points.  I think he and I agree there is
fault on all sides.  I just think he fails to follow me to the next logical
step after it.  If there is such fault among the Puritan separationists
too, then why separate?  Why sin more by the inevitable accusations and
fighting , harm more souls, create the illusion of a higher, better enclave
that is spiritually "safe?"  The very act of doing these things and
justifying them, I believe, contains the seeds of the breakaways'
inevitable failure to achieve the Puritan status to which they have
dedicated themselves and for which they have done (and denied) so much that
is at least shabby, and often false and wrong.  Look at the recent
Mansonville manipulations: creating a cause celebre, setting up conflict
and spinning it so as to call people to arms, the trumpet calls to the
banner of truth, justice and the American (whoops, I mean True Russian
Orthodox) way.  It is all so shop-worn and familiar.  The communist secular
reformers used the same tactics, their predecessors the Protestant
reformers used them, the breakaways from Antioch used them, so why
shouldn't Mansonville and the Orthodox reformers of the future?  So yes,
Fr. Anthony, I borrow terms from the part of history that I know, but it is
not name-calling, I hope.  It is an attempt to use a kind of shorthand that
saves words.  (As all can tell I need still more help in that regard!)  I
categorically deny being one of those who tries to trash traditionalists at
every opportunity.  No doubt because of my experiences I tend to see them
with a somewhat more jaundiced eye than I should, but the conscious part of
me affirms the need for a conservtive wing in the church.  I think you are
wrong, however, if you are suggesting that the only problem with
traditionalism is the mentally and spiritually ill nut-cases who wrap
themselves in a traditionalist flag. There is a great deal of misguided
sincerity about, all the more dangerous for its earnestness.
4.  Mr. Woerl, I believe you are correct that traditional Orthodoxy sees
the bishop's oversight and protection as essential to the integrity and
health of the church, and that control of church property and clergy is an
indispensable prerequisite.  It is very tempting when one is sure the
bishop is wrong to depart from those principles.
And that is precisely what the Ben Lomond breakaways did.  They stand for
congregational self-government in matters of clergy assignment and
ownership of church property.  When you combine that with their piety and
the seeming belief that separation into "pure" jurisdictions is God's
recipe for North America, and that the Jerusalem Patriarchate (with Felton,
coincidentally, as its flagship congregation and the Reader Constantine as
its new point man) is the chosen vessel, I think you have instead a recipe
for the further balkanization of Orthodoxy in North America.
love,
Fr. George

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March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
August 1997, Week 4
August 1997, Week 3
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August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 5
July 1997, Week 4
July 1997, Week 3
July 1997, Week 2
July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
February 1997, Week 2
February 1997, Week 1
January 1997, Week 5
January 1997, Week 4
January 1997, Week 3
January 1997, Week 2
January 1997, Week 1
December 1996, Week 5
December 1996, Week 4
December 1996, Week 3
December 1996, Week 2
December 1996, Week 1
November 1996, Week 5
November 1996, Week 4
November 1996, Week 3
November 1996, Week 2
November 1996, Week 1
October 1996, Week 5
October 1996, Week 4
October 1996, Week 3
October 1996, Week 2
October 1996, Week 1
September 1996, Week 5
September 1996, Week 4
September 1996, Week 3
September 1996, Week 2
September 1996, Week 1
August 1996, Week 5
August 1996, Week 4
August 1996, Week 3
August 1996, Week 2
August 1996, Week 1
July 1996, Week 5
July 1996, Week 4
July 1996, Week 3
July 1996, Week 2
July 1996, Week 1
June 1996, Week 5
June 1996, Week 4
June 1996, Week 3
June 1996, Week 2
June 1996, Week 1
May 1996, Week 5
May 1996, Week 4
May 1996, Week 3
May 1996, Week 2
May 1996, Week 1
April 1996, Week 5
April 1996, Week 4
April 1996, Week 3
April 1996, Week 2
April 1996, Week 1
March 1996, Week 5
March 1996, Week 4
March 1996, Week 3
March 1996, Week 2
March 1996, Week 1
February 1996, Week 5
February 1996, Week 4
February 1996, Week 3
February 1996, Week 2
February 1996, Week 1
January 1996, Week 5
January 1996, Week 4
January 1996, Week 3
January 1996, Week 2
January 1996, Week 1
December 1995, Week 5
December 1995, Week 4
December 1995, Week 3
December 1995, Week 2
December 1995, Week 1
November 1995, Week 5
November 1995, Week 4
November 1995, Week 3
November 1995, Week 2
November 1995, Week 1
October 1995, Week 5
October 1995, Week 4
October 1995, Week 3
October 1995, Week 2
October 1995, Week 1
September 1995, Week 5
September 1995, Week 4
September 1995, Week 3
September 1995, Week 2
September 1995, Week 1
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August 1995, Week 4
August 1995, Week 3
August 1995, Week 2
August 1995, Week 1
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July 1995, Week 4
July 1995, Week 3
July 1995, Week 2
July 1995, Week 1
June 1995, Week 5
June 1995, Week 4
June 1995, Week 3
June 1995, Week 2
June 1995, Week 1
May 1995, Week 5
May 1995, Week 4
May 1995, Week 3
May 1995, Week 2
May 1995, Week 1
April 1995, Week 5
April 1995, Week 4
April 1995, Week 3
April 1995, Week 2
April 1995, Week 1
March 1995, Week 5
March 1995, Week 4
March 1995, Week 3
March 1995, Week 2
March 1995, Week 1
February 1995, Week 4
February 1995, Week 3
February 1995, Week 2
February 1995, Week 1
January 1995, Week 5
January 1995, Week 4
January 1995, Week 3
January 1995, Week 2
January 1995, Week 1
December 1994, Week 5
December 1994, Week 4
December 1994, Week 3
December 1994, Week 2
December 1994, Week 1
November 1994, Week 5
November 1994, Week 4
November 1994, Week 3
November 1994, Week 2
November 1994, Week 1
October 1994, Week 5
October 1994, Week 4
October 1994, Week 3
October 1994, Week 2
October 1994, Week 1
September 1994, Week 5
September 1994, Week 4
September 1994, Week 3
September 1994, Week 2
September 1994, Week 1
August 1994, Week 5
August 1994, Week 4
August 1994, Week 3
August 1994, Week 2
August 1994, Week 1
July 1994, Week 5
July 1994, Week 4
July 1994, Week 3
July 1994, Week 2
July 1994, Week 1
June 1994, Week 5
June 1994, Week 4
June 1994, Week 3
June 1994, Week 2
June 1994, Week 1
May 1994, Week 5
May 1994, Week 4
May 1994, Week 3
May 1994, Week 2
May 1994, Week 1
April 1994, Week 5
April 1994, Week 4
April 1994, Week 3
April 1994, Week 2
April 1994, Week 1
March 1994, Week 5
March 1994, Week 4
March 1994, Week 3
March 1994, Week 2
March 1994, Week 1
February 1994, Week 4
February 1994, Week 3
February 1994, Week 2
February 1994, Week 1
January 1994, Week 5
January 1994, Week 4
January 1994, Week 3
January 1994
December 1993

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