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ORTHODOX  January 2002, Week 4

ORTHODOX January 2002, Week 4

Subject:

Re: OCA new age Church

From:

Joachim Wertz <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Orthodox Christianity <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:25:47 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (121 lines)

Vladyko blagoslovi,

Although a member now of the Serbian Church, I was received into Orthodoxy
in ROCOR, and for the past nearly 30 years have had a rather intimate
knowledge of ROCOR as well as contact with it. So could you please tell me
who "MARKOV IV" is? I have never heard of such a person, not even an
appellation.

In Christ,

Joachim Wertz

----------
>From: Bishop Tikhon <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: OCA new age Church
>Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002, 1:01 AM
>

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
-----------------------
> Sender:       Orthodox Christianity <[log in to unmask]>
> Poster:       Bishop Tikhon <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:      Re: OCA new age Church
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> At 09:50 PM 1/24/2002 -0500, Peter Andreev wrote:
>
>>This is a ROCOR listserv.
>
> Absolutely untrue. the "Listserv" is owned by Indiana University, not a
> ROCOR institution.
> Perhaps Peter meant to speak of "ORTHODOX" at listserv. The main figures
> here are Father Mark Gilstrap, ROCOR, and Michael Grinder, but that does
> not make this ***list*** a ROCOR ****list****.
>
> I am glad to see Peter seeking instruction from me, who am not his Bishop.
> I should think, though, that someone honestly addressing the problem of the
> appearance of uncanonical iconography would not be so much concerned about
> wall-paintings in a marginally Orthodox monastic-style (at times)
> establishment as in the uncanonical icons that are to be found in many
> parishes of, I believe, all jurisdictions with the probably exception of
> the Old Believers. For example, it's amazing to me how often one comes
> across  those icons depicting God the Father as an old man seated next to
> God the Son as a young man, with the Holy Spirit depicted as a dove flying
> between them: a direct expression of the filioque heresy. Are there no such
> icons in, say, ROCOR? Has Mister Andreev written to the Bishop having
> jurisdiction over such parishes?
> At least New Skete did not put halos on the persons of that motley crew!
>
> Perhaps Mister Andreev should be made aware of the huge Saint Sophia
> cathedral in Los Angeles, built by S. Skouras of 20th Century Fox. The wall
> paintings there, most of them of Great Feasts, all have the faces of
> parishioners of the day. The faces of Cherubs and Apostles on the
> iconostasis, too, are recognizable as those of family members to many of
> the parishioners there. "Look, there's Voula when she was just a baby!"
>
> Then there was the case of the iconostasis in some parish in Pennsylvania
> of which I heard long ago (anyone out there can verify this?). It seems
> that there is a mechanical pigeon, ahem, dove, over the Holy Doors, and at
> the time of the Epiclesis, when the Deacon quietly says  his Amens to the
> Priest, that bird flaps its wings!
>
> Yes, even in the Great Church in Constantinople, there are Emperors
> depicted on the walls who are not saints. Sometimes in Orthodox icons, such
> monarchs, or other men who donate on a princely scale, are depicted
> kneeling before Christ or a Saint, with a miniature  temple in their hands,
> demonstrating their benefactions to Christ's Church. I believe that some of
> those so depicted may have led lives that would otherwise compare
> unfavorably with, say, the life of Father Alexander Schmemann or even the
> Archbishop of Canterbury!!!
>
> I agree that there is a problem at New Skete, but I do not agree with
> singling out New Skete as uniquely home to canonical irregularities of the
> Orthodox Church in America.
>
> By the way, I wish Mister Andreev would correct one awful thing he wrote:
>
>>And Bishop Tikhon is trying to set ROCORS house in order?
>
> That is nonsense and a calumny. I have not sought to have ANY impact on
> ROCOR. The closest thing to it was when I asked, on more than one occasion,
> that all join me in praying for the suffering Episcopate of ROCOR. Check it
> out, Mister Andreev! Or please point out where I have made even one
> suggestion relative to order in ROCOR.
> When I wrote that the recent Mansonville incident resembled a kind of
> "high-colonic" for ROCOR, that was in no way any attempt to influence
> ROCOR. I don't believe I have ever pointed at ROCOR in a post and indicated
> that they needed correction. I have not maintained silence about some
> colorful personages of days past within ROCOR (Count Grabbe, who later
> became Bishop Gregory: MARKOV IV, and Metropolitan Philaret of blessed
> memory). I have never believed that ROCOR's house needs to be set "in
> order." What an idea!
> In retrospect, I can see that perhaps not I, but others should have devoted
> more time to such a project. I've only learnt in the past couple of months
> that the First Hierarch had no longer been serving the Divine Liturgy for
> some time.
> No. We all should look to putting our OWN houses in order before we
> admonish other Orthodox.
>
> I am nothing.
>
> Love
> +Bishop Tikhon
>
> -
> -
> -
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> To temporarily stop receiving messages send SET ORTHODOX NOMAIL
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December 1996, Week 5
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January 1996, Week 1
December 1995, Week 5
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February 1995, Week 1
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December 1994, Week 5
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April 1994, Week 1
March 1994, Week 5
March 1994, Week 4
March 1994, Week 3
March 1994, Week 2
March 1994, Week 1
February 1994, Week 4
February 1994, Week 3
February 1994, Week 2
February 1994, Week 1
January 1994, Week 5
January 1994, Week 4
January 1994, Week 3
January 1994
December 1993

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