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ORTHODOX  July 2003, Week 1

ORTHODOX July 2003, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Faith inspired Mel's movie The Passion

From:

Bishop Tikhon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Orthodox Christianity <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:37:56 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (175 lines)

I feel that it is clear that most Jews are on the side of Jews, and if a
state for Jews--Israel ---has been formed in accordance with the once
fantastic and not widely held beliefs of Zionists, such as Abraham
Herschel, then most Jews will be on its side.

But I think one should not call all those on the side of today's Jewish
state Zionists.

Zionism was a cause of mostly Liberal (even atheistic) German Jews, to
which most Jews, especially in Germany, did not subscribe. One may state
with assurance, though, I believe, that thanks to the Third Reich, most of
the anti-Zionist Jews were eliminated: the Reform/Liberal and atheistic and
converted German Jews in Germany, and the Conservative and Orthodox Jews of
Eastern Europe. The Sephards of Spain, North Africa and the Levant were not
Zionists of any sort: it was purely an Ashenazic European obsession of
people the Sephards would probably find it hard to recognize as Jews.
Besides the elimination of the anti-Zionist Jews, leaving the large
American & British Reform and Zionist communities to carry Zionism forward,
one may point to the actions of England, motivated by no Zionism of any
kind: it is they at whose feet the establishment of the modern Jewish state
must be laid, not at the feet of any Zionists.
When the Jews were made unwelcome (what a euphemism!) in Europe, the only
thing Roosevelt and Churchill found agreement was that they did NOT want
them flooding in their own countries. Far better to find them a place in
the land from which they were driven in the first century, than to have
them on England's or America's hands.

Now the Jews there are trying to survive at any cost. That is not Zionism.
That is just nationalism. Right now the American Empire is supportive of
that state, so they are probably safe from foreign invasion. However, they
might look back to the days when America allowed Iraq to develop weapons of
mass destruction and compare their present state: who knows? Maybe in the
future it will be found that their head of state is an absolute monster and
that they too somehow or other, have weapons of mass destruction and are a
threat to America's interests in the region. Then its good-by President and
Knesset, hello liberation!

I feel that Israel is no more "Zionist" than the Jerusalem Patriarchate is
"Old Calendarist." If the Jerusalem Patriarchate, even if eventually PACKED
with masonic Greeks or masonic Arabs (I doubt that is in the near future),
would go on the new reckoning, they would have to give way to the Latins on
all the big Holy Days, especially Nativity of Christ and Pascha, since
December 25th is, by law, the day when the Latins have priority in
Bethlehem.  All those dates are codified in "The Status Quo", and enforced
by the Muslims with great strictness in the name of forcing the Christians
to be peaceful. January 7th is "for the Greeks" even if "the Greeks" would
change their calendar. (Not Likely!)

Love,
+B.T.




At 06:16 PM 7/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       Orthodox Christianity <[log in to unmask]>
>Poster:       Timothy Connelly <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject:      Re: Faith inspired Mel's movie The Passion
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dear Mary;
>
>"Conservative religious Jews" encompasses *much* more
>than the tiny, introverted and cultish Hassidic groups
>I believe you are referring to. By "conservative
>religious Jew" I am referring to the average,
>practicing and observant Jew who believes in God, goes
>to synagogue, maybe keeps kosher and prays. (Think
>Senator Joe Lieberman). Surely you don't believe the
>so called "ultra-orthodox" are the only Jews who could
>be called "conservative" or "religious"?
>
>The ultra-orthodox are only a tiny element within
>modern Judaism; and only among a fraction of this tiny
>element are the attitudes against zionism you mention
>accepted. On the contrary; in modern Israel the
>majority secularist Jews complain that the tiny
>minority of ultra orthodox hold far too much power
>outside of their numbers; so great is the
>participation of the ultra orthodox in Israeli
>politics.
>
>So the majority of religious Jews, both the vast
>numbers of observant / religious Orthodox,
>Conservative and Reform branches, along with the
>majority of the tiny ultra orthodox element, support
>the zionist state and believe that its existence
>brings them closer to the advent of their messiah.
>
>best wishes
>Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- "Mary M. Stolzenbach" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > header -----------------------
> > Sender:       Orthodox Christianity
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Poster:       "Mary M. Stolzenbach"
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject:      Re: Faith inspired Mel's movie The
> > Passion
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:53:13 -0700 Timothy Connelly
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > writes:
> >
> >
> > > As for zionism:  It is a belief that the Jews are
> > > God's chosen people and by that condition alone
> > they
> > > are entitled to Palestine, and other surrounding
> > land,
> > > so as to establish a theocratic Jewish state.
> > This
> > > is, according to the conservative religious
> > zionists,
> > > supposed to hasten the coming of their messiah.
> >
> > I'm not sure which group you are indicating here; I
> > do know that the
> > extremely conservative religious Orthodox Jews who
> > have settled in
> > Palestine do NOT believe in the Zionist state.  They
> > see it as something
> > established by man and feel man is too sinful -
> > certainly modern Israelis
> > are too sinful - to set up such a state, which they
> > think is the
> > prerogative of the Messiah only..
> >
> > Mary M. Stolzenbach
> >   a member of the parish
> > St. Ignatius Antiochian Orthodox Church
> > Franklin, TN
> >
> > -
> > -
> > -
> > To unsubscribe send UNSUBSCRIBE ORTHODOX to
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> > To temporarily stop receiving messages send SET
> > ORTHODOX NOMAIL
> > Archives accessible at
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>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
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>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>-
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April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
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August 1997, Week 3
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August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
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June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 2
February 1997, Week 1
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January 1997, Week 3
January 1997, Week 2
January 1997, Week 1
December 1996, Week 5
December 1996, Week 4
December 1996, Week 3
December 1996, Week 2
December 1996, Week 1
November 1996, Week 5
November 1996, Week 4
November 1996, Week 3
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November 1996, Week 1
October 1996, Week 5
October 1996, Week 4
October 1996, Week 3
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October 1996, Week 1
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September 1996, Week 2
September 1996, Week 1
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June 1996, Week 5
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June 1996, Week 1
May 1996, Week 5
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May 1996, Week 3
May 1996, Week 2
May 1996, Week 1
April 1996, Week 5
April 1996, Week 4
April 1996, Week 3
April 1996, Week 2
April 1996, Week 1
March 1996, Week 5
March 1996, Week 4
March 1996, Week 3
March 1996, Week 2
March 1996, Week 1
February 1996, Week 5
February 1996, Week 4
February 1996, Week 3
February 1996, Week 2
February 1996, Week 1
January 1996, Week 5
January 1996, Week 4
January 1996, Week 3
January 1996, Week 2
January 1996, Week 1
December 1995, Week 5
December 1995, Week 4
December 1995, Week 3
December 1995, Week 2
December 1995, Week 1
November 1995, Week 5
November 1995, Week 4
November 1995, Week 3
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October 1995, Week 5
October 1995, Week 4
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October 1995, Week 1
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September 1995, Week 1
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August 1995, Week 3
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July 1995, Week 3
July 1995, Week 2
July 1995, Week 1
June 1995, Week 5
June 1995, Week 4
June 1995, Week 3
June 1995, Week 2
June 1995, Week 1
May 1995, Week 5
May 1995, Week 4
May 1995, Week 3
May 1995, Week 2
May 1995, Week 1
April 1995, Week 5
April 1995, Week 4
April 1995, Week 3
April 1995, Week 2
April 1995, Week 1
March 1995, Week 5
March 1995, Week 4
March 1995, Week 3
March 1995, Week 2
March 1995, Week 1
February 1995, Week 4
February 1995, Week 3
February 1995, Week 2
February 1995, Week 1
January 1995, Week 5
January 1995, Week 4
January 1995, Week 3
January 1995, Week 2
January 1995, Week 1
December 1994, Week 5
December 1994, Week 4
December 1994, Week 3
December 1994, Week 2
December 1994, Week 1
November 1994, Week 5
November 1994, Week 4
November 1994, Week 3
November 1994, Week 2
November 1994, Week 1
October 1994, Week 5
October 1994, Week 4
October 1994, Week 3
October 1994, Week 2
October 1994, Week 1
September 1994, Week 5
September 1994, Week 4
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September 1994, Week 1
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August 1994, Week 1
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July 1994, Week 3
July 1994, Week 2
July 1994, Week 1
June 1994, Week 5
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June 1994, Week 1
May 1994, Week 5
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May 1994, Week 1
April 1994, Week 5
April 1994, Week 4
April 1994, Week 3
April 1994, Week 2
April 1994, Week 1
March 1994, Week 5
March 1994, Week 4
March 1994, Week 3
March 1994, Week 2
March 1994, Week 1
February 1994, Week 4
February 1994, Week 3
February 1994, Week 2
February 1994, Week 1
January 1994, Week 5
January 1994, Week 4
January 1994, Week 3
January 1994
December 1993

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